Autor Tema: O astrofotografiji  (Posjeta: 38537 vremena)

0 Članova i 1 Gost pregledava ovu temu.

Offline dag

  • Moderator
  • AstroVeličanstvo
  • *
  • Postova: 16192
  • Lokacija: Zg
  • Spol: Muški
Odg: O astrofotografiji
« Odgovori #60 u: 20.08.2012. u 00:45:42 sati »
I zvijezde-crtice pretvoriti u zvijezde-tockice?
"Sve sto postoji samo je vise lica istoga, nastalih zbog loma simetrije kod promjene faze, zbog pada energetskog nivoa prilikom inicijalnog sirenja prostora." (Kruno)

Offline Acheron

  • Važna Osoba
  • AstroVeličanstvo
  • *****
  • Postova: 14753
  • Lokacija: Novo Čiče
  • Spol: Muški
  • SkyWatcher 300/1500 GoTo
    • Zvjezdopisi
Odg: O astrofotografiji
« Odgovori #61 u: 20.08.2012. u 00:51:09 sati »
ekspozicija je 10 sekundi pa su te crtice minimalne

Offline dag

  • Moderator
  • AstroVeličanstvo
  • *
  • Postova: 16192
  • Lokacija: Zg
  • Spol: Muški
Odg: O astrofotografiji
« Odgovori #62 u: 20.08.2012. u 01:02:31 sati »
A DSS nece?
"Sve sto postoji samo je vise lica istoga, nastalih zbog loma simetrije kod promjene faze, zbog pada energetskog nivoa prilikom inicijalnog sirenja prostora." (Kruno)

Offline HrAstro

  • Moderator
  • AstroVeličanstvo
  • *
  • Postova: 7531
  • Lokacija: Zagreb
  • Spol: Muški
  • Majstor Svjetlosti
Odg: O astrofotografiji
« Odgovori #63 u: 20.08.2012. u 01:06:14 sati »
Hmmmmm.... ja sam danas s Katarinom stackirao fotke sa njezina fotića u DSSu i sve 5!
.............:HrAstro:. - http://www.hrastro.com/..............

Offline Acheron

  • Važna Osoba
  • AstroVeličanstvo
  • *****
  • Postova: 14753
  • Lokacija: Novo Čiče
  • Spol: Muški
  • SkyWatcher 300/1500 GoTo
    • Zvjezdopisi
Odg: O astrofotografiji
« Odgovori #64 u: 20.08.2012. u 01:31:21 sati »
Koje postavke?

Offline Acheron

  • Važna Osoba
  • AstroVeličanstvo
  • *****
  • Postova: 14753
  • Lokacija: Novo Čiče
  • Spol: Muški
  • SkyWatcher 300/1500 GoTo
    • Zvjezdopisi
Odg: O astrofotografiji
« Odgovori #65 u: 24.01.2016. u 22:29:10 sati »
Što se dogodi kada ljudi pretjeraju

Reakcija na http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap160122.html

Social Media Attention vs. The Wonder of Science
(the story of the faked APOD)

The world of amateur astronomy is an awesome place where people are generally friendly and helpful. The images produced by today’s amateur equipment far exceed the quality and resolution of professional NASA or Observatory images of the 60s, 70s and 80s. It is absolutely amazing what you can capture using readily available and inexpensive cameras, software and telescopic equipment from your backyard or schoolyard if you devote just a little time to learning the ropes.

Social media has also exploded with fantastic quality images and movies from amateurs all over the world who no longer have to wait for the latest issue of their favorite astronomy magazine to see what everyone else is doing. It’s instantaneous satisfaction in a “Kardashian culture” of consumerism. Along with the readily available exceptional images on social media has come an extreme desire among some of our community to “get noticed” or to have your image published in magazines or on important websites.

APOD (Astronomy Picture of the Day) is a NASA ran website featuring the best of the best images from professionals and amateurs alike chosen from thousands of submissions weekly to highlight the absolute wonder and fascination with the heavens. Getting your image featured as an APOD is the “holy grail” for amateur astronomers and really tells everyone in the community that you are “legit” and you have arrived on the scene.

Human nature has, of course, reared it’s ugly head in this hobby like any other and recently an image and video featured as the APOD on Jan 22nd, 2016 has sparked a great deal of controversy among the people who know these things as it seems to be clearly manipulated and faked, or at the very least, processed far beyond what is acceptable in the community as a real image.

The drive and decisions by the author are in question and one has to wonder, have we gotten this self absorbed and forgotten what this hobby is really about so much that we will now simply concoct some fantastic image in order to get more exposure as a featured APOD.? Are the quality controls so lax or has the hobby gotten so refined that even the people over at APOD could be duped by such an obviously “photoshopped” image?

A little background; The International Space Station is an orbiting science platform that makes a complete rotation around the Earth approximately every 90 minutes. It is a large and very picturesque satellite that gives ample opportunity for viewing and imaging from Earthbound telescopes, cameras and eyeballs. The satellite routinely crosses in front of the Sun, Moon, Planets and other celestial objects creating an opportunity to film a beautiful movie showing the ISS and the object in the same image. These events are called “transits” and are predicted with exact accuracy by a fantastically functional website at Calsky.com and in many astronomy software packages like Stellarium, etc.

Anyone on Earth can simply type in their location and get a complete list of every time the ISS, or any other satellite, will cross their field of view or transit an object in their sky.

Catching these “ISS transits” has been a very competitive endeavor, which has addicted many an amateur astronomer. The frustration involved can be overwhelming but the payback from successfully capturing these events is enormous and has created an extreme desire to be the one who gets the best transit image.

I myself gained a lot of popularity and cemented my position as an astronomy lecturer mainly due to the organizer of NEAF at the time, Alan Traino, noticing one of my ISS solar transits on Facebook in 2009. After publishing that image freely on the internet, my popularity increased by 1000% overnight and the next thing I knew, people were requesting me to come to their events to talk about my Solar Astronomy Outreach program -The Charlie Bates Solar Astronomy Project- and actually asking ME to come lecture on solar imaging. The power of capturing the ISS transit is clear in the community.

One of the most popular imagers out there, Thierry LeGault (France) was propelled to astronomy nerd stardom by his (almost) unbelievable DSLR captures of the ISS/Space Shuttle transiting the Sun and Moon. I must admit, I get very excited when Calsky.com tells me that a Solar or Lunar transit is coming up in my area.

Now, back to the story. An image and video submitted to APOD by a young astronomer in Germany recently caught the attention of the social media machine. His post on his own Facebook page had over 150,000 views and shares within a few hours and it was chosen by the APOD team as the Astronomy Picture of the Day for Jan 22nd, 2016 after he submitted it to them for review.

APOD listed in the description “On January 15, the well-timed capture from a site near Dulmen, Germany required telescope… (sic) …with one frame showing the station directly in front of the ringed gas giant.”

Almost immediately, seasoned planetary and ISS imagers in the community started pointing out that there was surely something “not right” with this image. I was attracted to a discussion on Facebook amongst two of the most knowledgeable astronomers in my local community and decided to investigate the image and the stated conditions under which it was taken.

This was indeed not a “well timed capture” but a composite of several different videos at different times manipulated to show a transit at an impossible level of detail.

It didn’t take long for me to notice first off that this video was supposedly taken 2 minutes after sunrise in his community. This sparked my interest as Saturn was on the Eastern side of the sky when this occurred and I knew from years of experience that there is no way any piece of equipment could get such a dark, noiseless background and such vibrant colors and resolution of Saturn in broad daylight. So, I investigated further.

From the authors own information it listed that The ISS was 24.1 arcseconds in apparent size during the transit. He also said that Saturn was 27 arcseconds in diameter at the time. This is, of course, impossible, as Saturn never gets larger than 21.37 arcseconds in apparent diameter. In fact, at the time of this transit, Saturn was just 15.6 arcseconds in size.

So, what does this mean in English? The ISS was in reality almost twice as big in the sky as Saturn at the time of this transit yet the image and video showed it being smaller than Saturn. This was a sure sign of something indeed being “not right” with this APOD. Maybe he mistyped the angular sizes, whatever, this is only one of the several problems with this image stated online by some of the world's best planetary imagers.

The author also stated that he used a 42 frame per second exposure time during a .02 second transit. Anyone who has ever imaged Saturn even in the middle of the night in the darkest of skies knows that there is no way you could possibly capture that amount of color detail in a live view video with a 23 millisecond exposure time. Using this exposure time in a daylight sky would yield nothing but noise and possibly a little bit of the ISS’s grainy silhouette but definitely not a super black background and a perfectly resolved color image of both the ISS and Saturn through a 10 inch Newtonian telescope like the one the author says he used or any other telescope for that matter. It simply isn’t possible.

While researching the event even more, it became apparent from many discrepancies that this image was not a good old fashioned ISS transit capture from a humble astronomer but a cobbled together composite video and image manipulated and created by software to greatly enhance the details and place the ISS artificially right in the middle of Saturn simply to compete for another APOD award. When you go to the author’s website you find that he also sells his prints of astronomical images so the APOD would generate another couple hundred thousand hits and possibly a new batch of sales for his images. Making a buck is not a crime but creating images that aren’t real to make a buck is surely not something that I am in favor of.

Speaking of the author’s website, he is definitely an accomplished imager and the vast majority of the images he has listed for sale and for show on his site are quite beautiful and authentic. It made me wonder what could possibly motivate someone with such talent to artificially create this image….and then I remembered human nature and the quest for fame. This coupled with the desire to make money was surely at the root of this fraud.

This entire episode brings into the limelight the not so productive process by which these APODs are chosen. In order to be considered for placement as an APOD, an imager must send an email to the authors containing the image. This sounds simple enough but when you combine that with the overwhelming desire amongst a fraction of our community to get published or to be instantaneously transformed into a celebrity through astro-imaging, you get the system we have now for APODs.

There are a great deal of astronomers, myself included, who simply are not interested in being featured on these sites or in these magazines. The payback in freely sharing our astronomical images is in the fact that other people enjoy them and it spreads the wonder of science. Our society is sorely in need of inspiration in space exploration and the sciences and the best way to spark that is to simply share these beautiful images freely, without copyright in an attempt to get some young mind interested in space. Or even better, set up your equipment in public places or at schools and let the non-astronomer get exposed to our wonderful hobby through hands on participation. That’s what it is all about for me, your mileage may vary.

Unfortunately, the competitive aspect of our hobby has created a subculture of “get published at any cost” and the APOD submission system feeds right in to this desire. There is a great propensity among the people who have prioritized getting noticed to submit these images through their email procedure thereby flooding the entrants pool to overwhelmingly people who have arguably lost the real importance and meaning of the hobby.

Perhaps if these authors actually searched the internet for their daily image, like we do at solarastronomy.org, instead of relying on the email system to hand it to them, the propensity for people to fake or overly enhance images would be less. I don’t know. I do know that this entire episode has left a black eye on the hobby and highlighted to what extent people will go in order to get attention even when their actual untouched images are beautiful.


Manipulating an image through post processing in order to enhance the existing details is one thing. Constructing an image or video from separate and unrelated videos is something that we, as members of the community, have to put a limit on unless we want to see nothing but fantastical Final Cut Pro files instead of the much more impressive actual beauty of space.

Stephen W. Ramsden
Amateur Astronomer


Ovo su meteorološki uvijeti s lokacije i vremena snimanja



Offline dag

  • Moderator
  • AstroVeličanstvo
  • *
  • Postova: 16192
  • Lokacija: Zg
  • Spol: Muški
Odg: O astrofotografiji
« Odgovori #66 u: 24.01.2016. u 22:44:19 sati »
Dobro je napisao  [71*
"Sve sto postoji samo je vise lica istoga, nastalih zbog loma simetrije kod promjene faze, zbog pada energetskog nivoa prilikom inicijalnog sirenja prostora." (Kruno)

Offline Zocky

  • Moderator
  • AstroVeličanstvo
  • *
  • Postova: 8702
  • Lokacija: Čakovec
  • Spol: Muški
    • www.advega.hr
Odg: O astrofotografiji
« Odgovori #67 u: 25.01.2016. u 00:17:29 sati »
Podugačak članak, ali je svaka na mjestu.
HEQ5 pro; SW ED 80/600, FF/FR x0.85, 9x50 finder/guider, ALccd5
SBIG ST-8300M, FW5, Baader filteri: LRGB, Ha7nm
Canon EOS 50D
Bresser 10x50
www.advega.hr
https://www.flickr.com/photos/zoran-novak/

Offline Beorn

  • Moderator
  • AstroUmotvorac
  • *
  • Postova: 6485
  • Lokacija: Zagreb
  • Spol: Muški
Odg: O astrofotografiji
« Odgovori #68 u: 25.01.2016. u 00:20:10 sati »
Naročito četvrti pasus od kraja.  [71*
Teleskopi: Antares - Celestron C11 XLT, Anglachel - Equinox 120ED APO, Beba - StarTravel 80, Lutonja - Meade 5000 80mm triplet
Dalekozori: Lunt LE 7X50 Magnesium, Bresser 10X50
Montaže: Skywatcher EQ6Pro SynScan modificirana, Losmandy GM8
Kamere: ATIK 383L+, Canon 600D, QHY5L-IIm

Offline mrworf

  • Moderator
  • AstroBrbljavac
  • *
  • Postova: 1574
  • Lokacija: Zagreb
  • Spol: Muški
    • Youtube
Odg: O astrofotografiji
« Odgovori #69 u: 25.01.2016. u 00:48:45 sati »
Imam tog lika ne fejsu već neko vrijeme, lagano je egoističan, i kada sam u punoj kvaliteti vidio taj video, bio je jednostavno predobar da se u meni javila neka sumnja... ali nisam reagirao..
-SW 250/1200, ED80, Skalamerija 300mm F5 APO EQ6 Pro
-Okulari 1.25": 6mm gold line, barlow 2.5X GSO, barlow 5X, 28mm 2" okular
-Canon 1100D sa Magic Lanternom
-ASI 120 MC Guiding
-EF 50mm F1.8, 18-55mm, 70-300mm